There will be no stunts in Magi. The Magi alter everything around them fairly regularly. Having anything as concrete as a stunt just doesn't feel right to me. Perhaps after a bit of play testng I will become convinced of the need for stunts. As it stands they seem like a superfluous addition to the game I want to make.
Skill aspects need to be removed/changed. When I originally thought of them I saw them as a replacement for regular skills. I realized that, in the setting I have made, there is no appreciable difference between a skill aspect and a regular aspect. Except that a regular aspect has far better rules working for it. So now you can build skills as aspects. I think there might need to be a character sheet with a big side list(empty at first) that you can fill with all the aspects you put on yourself. Just cross them out when they have been destroyed.
Creating aspects in a node that has a style that meshes with a character's style has a Fair(+2) difficulty. Creating an aspect on yourself has a mediocre difficulty. It is very easy to change yourself and your world when you are in synch with it.
Creating aspects in a node where your style is out of synch with the node's style is a Fantastic(+6) difficulty. creating aspects on yourself is a Good(+3) difficulty. Also at any point the GM can give you a fate point to increase that difficulty by +2 as a compel.
You can attempt to halt another character's create advantage roll. It uses up your action for the turn. Your roll adds to the difficulty of the create advantage action. you can only do this in a node which has a style in synch with yours.
Trying to alter/destroy a node's aspects is more(+2) difficult than creating new aspects. Changing a core aspect is more(+2) difficult than that. I am uncertain on this last rule. I would very much like the nodes to fight back when you attempt to change them. However I feel this might take the human element away from the game. In the early days of this project I got entirely too focused on the nodes and how the players interacted with them. For now I will go with these rules on how changing a node works as it tends to focus the conflict around the humans in control of the nodes.
That's about all I have for today. I am pretty much done with this project. Unless someone really wants to see more of this project. Until I have run it some more, I am out of fresh ideas.
Wish I could mbe more of a help. To be honest, mulling this game around in my mind, my vision for it (the kind of fiction I see being created by it) is kinda dark-ish in tone, with Magi coinstantly wondering if they're doing the right thing by using the nodes, or are they just monkey-like opportunists poking things with sticks until the Goodness comes out.
ReplyDeleteIf you do decide to put in groups like the mages from Mage: the Ascension in, I've actually got an idea for the Hollow Ones that doesn't sound like ass. (At least I think it doesn't.)
But I am curious about things: how do Nodes look to the PCs? Does it depend on their paradigm? Is it like Feng Shui, where the more Nodes they tap into, the more powerful they get? What does a statted Node look like to you? Is there a Technocracy group out there, or Nephandi, or Marauders? Or is everyone kinda making it up as they go along? Does magic in this setting kind of occlude itself, changing people's memories and evidence until people remember something mundane happening instead? (Because that would be kinda cool, showing how the Nodes "reboot" reality.) What does Discord look like?
I'm asking because I like what I've seen so far, and I'm hoping that by asking these questions, I can help you get a handle on what you want this game to do. Once you do that, I think the mechanics will fall into place.
A node can look like anything, or nothing. It is a notional fixed point in fluid reality. In that it is hard to describe. The important locations in a city could be nodes. As could archetypes within the collective unconscious. Or it could be a pocket dimension, or a series of alternate timelines. wherever there are enough people believing in an idea, there will be a node. Nodes are connected to each other, unless they have been cut off through artificial means.
DeleteThey work a bit like Feng Shui Sites, in that the more you control the more control of reality you have, but unless you are in the zone it grants no additional power.
I really appreciate all of your thoughts you have given me on this project. I may put the rough draft document on the site at some point in the next week.
I really look forward to it. This has to be one of the more accessible versions of Mage that I've seen around in a long time. I wish I had more adventurous souls ti playtest it with, but gamers up here tend to be traditional in their gaming choices.
DeleteBy the way, how do normal people view magic? Is there some sort of block in the way, so that people rationalize the magic into something that makes sense? Do they just not see it? Is there some sort of janitorial mechanism whereby the nodes clean up any large outbreaks of magic?
ReplyDeleteWhat is magic? In this setting normal people(shadows) are a creation of the node they exist in, they are caused by the node and reinforce the node. Basically if it is in tune with the node's style then it is not magic. If the shadows see someone doing the impossible(using style in conflict with the node's style) they generally disbelieve it or try to destroy it, or any number of reactions.
DeleteThere is no magic in this setting...or everything is magic, take your pick. You play one of the Magi, which means you have power/knowledge/will that allows you to fundamentally interact with the true universe and see things as they are, however this puts you in more danger than your average shadow. I hope that clears it up, though not sure how clear I am being. This is the issue with this setting, what the hell do you call things when nothing is really real, you know?
Do Magi enter play with an attachment to a Node? Is that what allows them to do what they do?
ReplyDeleteAs for what to call them: Make a distinction between "real" and "hyperreal." Magi start out as real (beings of sentience created by the nodes) then become hyperreal by becoming exposed to the reality of the nodes, which allows them to interact with Reality on a more direct level. This, in turn, clues them in to how fragile the "reality" as they knew it is, which encourages them to go on a turf-war for the nodes, so as to insure that their existence is more stable.
How does changing reality "look" in play? What do PCs have to do to quick-change reality? Is it dependent on the PCs, or which nodes they have access to? (I think the latter, but I want to be sure.) Can a PC drop nodes and pick up new ones, thus changing their "magic style" to reflect how they see the world/want the world to be?
I feel I was unclear on what a node is. A node is...well it's...yeah. They are core to the experience of Magi and yet they defy definition. They are places, yes. They are also ideas, concepts, ideal, and spiritual realities. they are fundamental building blocks of reality. They are a city block, and that dream where you go to school naked, and they are Camelot, and green beans. Basically they are Important Things. Things that people believe in. They give the world stability. They are important in their normalcy.
DeleteSo Magi are connected to nodes, yes. However what separates them from the Shadows is their disconnect from their nodes. They see the illusion for what it is. In universe no one knows what causes this separation. Some Shadows become Magi all on their own, and some shadows never awaken no matter ow hard a Magi may try to show them reality.
Changing reality will be individual to the character trying to do it. Some go for flash and thunder, some for strange coincidences. And some alter reality so subtly one could hardly claim it has even happened.
Changing magic style should be a big deal. This game is about making the world fit your belief structures. If you are able to change style at will then it is unlikely you ever had enough belief in your actions to awaken in the first place. Your style should compliment your belief, and vice versa.
What benefits does a PC get for hacking a node?
ReplyDeleteWhat does getting a milestone mean for a character?
Because of the Feng Shui connection, I keep having this idea in my head that the two are somehow connected. Am I wrong?
When you hack a node you alter it to suit your style or belief. this makes using your skills to build advantages much easier.
ReplyDeleteI have thought a bit about milestones, and I would like to do something special with them, but I am uncertain what. I think major milestones should let you add a node to the universe(or delete one) though I am uncertain if that would work. I do not know.
The two what? nodes and milestones? I do not understand the question, I am sorry.
Yes, does getting a milestone first require successfully hacking a node, or something similar? Are the two tied together in any way?
DeleteCHanging a node could be a milestone, or more specifically WOULD be a milestone. However, that is not the only thing that could be a milestone. I could see other in game events being milestones that do not directly deal with altering nodes. THough that would be primarily how it would go.
DeleteAnother question: For those types of magical manipulation which seem to fall within the purview of multiple skills, how do you treat them? Just find the lowest skill and use that? Or have the GM pick the most reasonable skill and roll based on that?
ReplyDeleteI am contemplating something like this: you take the most relevant skill(this will be primary) and then look to the less relevant skill(secondary). If the secondary skill is higher than the primary skill increase the primary by one, if lower decrease the primary by one.
DeleteMakes sense.
DeleteAnother question re: stress tracks.
ReplyDeleteI notice that Pattern and Discord, for the sample characters, both only had two spaces. Do you have any ideas for how a character could add more? Standard FATE gives you Physique and Will for physical and mental stress (which appears to be rolled up together in Pattern). Do you have an idea which of the skills you could use to add more to those stress tracks?
you don't get more. Everyone is the same in that regard.
DeleteOh. That...doesn't seem to give a lot of wiggle room. How are you doing Consequences?
DeleteThe same as in Fate Core. I originally thought about getting rid of stress track entirely, and I may still do so in the future.
DeleteI have some ideas. Bear in mind, please, that I'm doing this to help with the game, and not to interfere with your creative processes.
ReplyDeleteMagi are, as you said above, disconnected from the world as the rest of us know it. This means, to me, that they have to struggle to assert their existences (via hacking nodes), but in the process they've developed the tools (skills) in order to do so. They literally struggle to keep their existences, as they know them, from being overwritten. This ends up translating into a larger struggle for reality, as they end up having to decide what type of world they want to create and live in.
To my mind, this calls for an Occlusion mechanic (let's call it that for now) whereby the nodes reinforce the dominant paradigm by gradually rewriting contradictory realities either out of existence entirely (and thus no one remembers them except for the other Magi) or modifies it into something that the dominant paradigm can accept. Thus, a fireball in the middle of rush hour traffic becomes, on reflection, an exploding tanker truck or a gas main leak. A conjured unicorn becomes a rhino escaped from the zoo, or some poor horse with a spooky genetic deformity. And so on. Mostly, these changes do not reflect well on the Magi who violated Node reality, so that the Magus in question now becomes a wanted fugitive, complete with witnesses and videotape. (This process of editing isn't completely perfect, of course, and provides a handy backstory for new Magi.)
Ah, but when a Magus successfully hacks a Node, suddenly people remember and begin to accept what the Magus can do. Suddenly the Magus' personal magical style is no longer an anomaly, but just part of the way the world works, according to everything attached to that Node. Of course, this will inevitably produce events that the magus does not want, but Sometimes Things Go Wrong appears to be built-in to every paradigm.
This, in turn, leads some Magi to recoil from their newfound status in existential horror, some to find out if there is a "real" reality underneath it all (treating this reality as a corrupted distortion of the real world), some to try to find something to guide them through the difficult decisions now open to a Magus, some to get by and try to do the best they can, and some to just cut loose and go on a power-trip. Magi being what they are, it's usually some mixture of the above. These reactions usually push Magi into like-minded groups whose paradigm and goals best harmonize with their own. Thus, the factions are born.
It seems to me that the best way to describe the universe that the Magi hail from is a "weak-epiphenomenal" world: Everything that happens or exists is due to the complex interplay between the nodes (so goes the theory.) The three "bad" factions of the game (The Mad, The Rationalists, and the nihilist-Nephandi analogue that I cannot remember the name of) argue for a strong version of this theory, arguing that even regular human beings are meat-machines with an ersatz-sentience that is only mistaken for a "soul" out of misguided wishful thinking. The rest of the Magi have differing ideas, which make for different ideals to rally around and solidify the factions. Magi tend to split the Epiphenomenal world into two different sides of the same coin: the Concrete (the world most humans are familiar with) and the Abstract (which is the world of the spirits and spirit-like beings). Then there is the Noumenal World, in which the true forms of the Nodes reside, and which the Magi (partially) inhabit.
DeleteWhy Magi have "disconnected" from the Epiphenomenal world and drifted into the Noumenal world is anyone's guess, and that why provides further fuel for factionalism. Those Magi who are religious in nature take it as a sign from their deity or deities that they have special work to do. The more philosophical-minded use it as an opportunity to study the "true" working of the universe. Some grab for power and to secure their existences. Some crusade for the chance to remake the world into their Utopia. Almost all desire to not be overwritten into another's reality.
I bring up the terms Epiphenomenal and Noumenal to serve as springboards for ways to talk about the world as it exists even though it doesn't really exist.
The reason I describe it as a "weak-epiphenomenal" world in the beginning paragraph is because there is evidence that not everything is pre-determined by the nodes. Magi either "free themselves" or are "freed" from reality, and with a great effort of will, things can be made to change in ways that the nodes wouldn't have ordinarily allowed.
DeleteOr the become node in and of themselves. You know, I think you might get my game far more than I do. As I wrote this I grew more and more dissatisfied. Not because I disliked it, but because I had no idea what to do with it. I have done that which I never really thought possible. I have written something that I do not quite understand. As always I appreciate your thoughts and I like how you view this world.
DeleteThank you!
ReplyDeleteTo me, this game suggested, right off the bat, that Magi are people who are not only fighting for a "better" version of reality than what they (we) currently have, but are also fighting to keep themselves from being overwritten to either conform to the reality they became detached from (or a newer one), or from being erased altogether. They bond to each other for security and convenience, and even friendship and love, but how far can you ever be secure with someone who can adjust the rules of reality? They are homeless, looking for a home, but will never be satisfied unless they can build their home from scratch...or can they overcome that and learn happiness? Can they save humanity, or do they damn humanity by their very existence, by being cancer cells in the body of reality?
It's actually really easy to justify the Cold-War paranoia that was found in Mage: the Ascension in this setting. It's also easy to see why finding groups of allies with a similar world-view would hold such a strong appeal: Even if you yourself don't get to reshape reality, then you can at least help those who can get close enough. (Or can you? Magi can lie and scheme much easier than most people.)
An interesting aside: I keep having a vision of a group I call "The Gatekeepers." This is a group that has the longest internal memory of Magi groups, because their goal is a simple one: to erase all knowledge of the Nodes from human memory, and keep mankind going on in the darkness. They fear the powers of the Nodes, and of Magi, even though they are Magi themselves. Perhaps *especially* because they are Magi, and know that there are no hard limits to the power of a Magus with full access to the nodes. They clandestinely have allied with all the Magi factions in the past, encouraging them to hide their powers and discourage poking into the power of the nodes, in exchange for a monopoly on the power of the nodes. The longest running alliance they have had to date is with the Rationalists, but now that alliance is beginning to dissolve. They hate what they believe they have to do, but fear the alternative even more.
I would like to steal that idea for the game. I hope you don't mind. I am currently working on a gameable version of magi and I should have a document finished by tomorrow or the next day.
DeleteI would truly love to see that! Please keep me in mind.
Delete